Blinkist’s Director of Content Discovery, Robyn Kerkhof, recognized curation as a business tool and successfully pushed for it inside of her company.
“Back in the day, curation was mostly a job in museums and art galleries. It took the Spotifys, Twitters and Netflixes of the world to really popularize curation as a valid business need. I’m proud to say that we were amongst the first ones to identify the business need for that discipline.” — Robyn Kerkhof, BlinkistÂ
Curation has long moved out of the ivory tower of the art world. These days, anyone with taste and the will can be a curator. Sometimes curation is automated with a “human in the loop” providing oversight. Sometimes there’s no oversight at all.Â
However the sausage is made, the goal is usually to get the right content to the right person at the right time. When you make connections like this, the results are powerful.
Robyn Kerkhof, the Director of Content Discovery at Blinkist, knew that a curation function could impact her company’s bottom line, so she made the case for it internally. How did she do it? How did she measure success? And what did she learn along the way?
Other highlights, inspiration and key learnings:
đź‘‹ Say "hi" to Robyn.Â
🔎 Browse the companion Storyboard to get the episode, plus Robyn’s own favorite culture picks.
➕ This podcast was created by Flipboard, the world’s first social magazine, where enthusiasts are curating stories they recommend across thousands of interests. Learn more
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This transcript was generated by AI, which may affect its accuracy. As such, we apologize for any errors in the transcript or confusion in the dialogue. Thanks for your patience!
Mia Quagliarello:
Do you remember when curation was something that mostly existed in the ivory towers of the art world, gatekeepers would decide what you'd see on museum and gallery walls. Now, of course curation powers all kinds of scenarios and Services at Tech companies like Spotify and Flipboard. It's not unusual for human curators or humans in the loop to be the custodians of what gets pushed out to consumers. The goal is to get the right content to the right person at the right time. But what if your company doesn't have this function? Our guest today recognized a need for a curation discipline, made a case for it with her leadership, and then backed up the decision with results. How did she do it? What metrics does she use to measure success? How does she think about human tastes versus AI superpowers? And what is the unexpected quality she thinks every curator should have? That's today's episode. Welcome to the Art of curation, the show from Flipboard that explores the role of human tastes in a tech driven world. Each episode, we talk to someone who's an expert, the timing, Signal and the Noise. People who do this for a living in Media Tech, fashion, music, and more. I'm your host Mia Quagliarello. Like you, I get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content out there. I crave authentic people to guide me in making smart choices that make my life better, people would taste the real kind. My guest today is Robin Kerkhof. Robin started working as an editor at Blinkist, eight years ago and is now the Director of curation. I wanted to talk to her because she's such a good example of someone who recognized curation as a business tool, and successfully pushed for it inside of her company. So Blinkist, as I understand it is an app that helps curious minds understand powerful ideas in 15 minutes. But to do that, you have to curate a book down to its most essential ideas. How do you and your team think about that?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yes, that is correct. I think when we take a step back, this is like curating a book down to its most essential ideas, is basically what every student and researchers doing as well, right, you read a book, you identify the key ideas and the insights, and then you extract them in order to understand this texts or this book's core messages. And I think it's quite an interesting process to do that. Because when you do that for like, let's say 2030 books, you can already see a big, big difference between books that are well structured, and ones that are well not so well structured. And for those that are well structured, that have a really good table of contents that really coherently use examples and arguments to support the larger message that the author wants to share and wants to convey. These ones are actually pretty easy to curate down, if that makes sense. It's rather difficult to take a book that's scattered and to dissect that and to say, Okay, this is, this is what it is about. This is the core message. I should I should mention, though, that when I'm saying this, I'm specifically talking about nonfiction books. This is like, curating fiction is a bit more complicated, obviously. But it's a fun thing to do. And, to me, at least, I've studied a bunch of different things. I've been really fortunate to do that, and to have the freedom to study. So that to me, is a very familiar process. Let's say,
Mia Quagliarello:
you must learn so much in your job.
Robyn Kerkhof:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel so fortunate. Really? I do I do. Because I get a lot of exposure to all kinds of things like we're covering, basically all nonfiction categories that you can think of whether that's history, or parenting, or relationships, or business leadership, and I feel like, I am really grateful to be able, you know, at every dinner party to be that person who's like, Well, recently, I've read and everyone's like, yeah, yeah.
Mia Quagliarello:
How do you then work to get the right blink or the right idea in front of the right person at the right time?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah, I love this question, because, well, that's that's essentially my role here at blankest. Together with my team, the first step that we need to make sure happens is to find the right content to select the right content. So that includes, of course, covering what's currently present on the bestseller list, right? Like what's what's trending on Amazon, what is featured on the New York Times bestseller list. What are the books that people talk about? What is a book or a type of content that's been recommended by influencers by experts in their fields. So we sift through all of that stuff in all of these different categories, right? I mentioned earlier business and leadership, and relationships and parenting, but also we do a lot of self help, history, psychology, the sciences, etc, etc. So that is the biggest part, I would say off this process is to find the right content content that is relevant, that is exciting. But also that adds another angle to our catalog, right? Like, does it add a new perspective to what we already have? That's really, really important to us. There are also there are so many other factors that go into making this decision for each and every individual book. So we also look at the author, is this an expert in their field as a respected author? Or is this a publishing house that we trust, who has been talking about this book, who has protested and said, we also want to make sure that we enrich our service by adding new angles, new points of views? Like, we really want to make sure that all different areas and viewpoints are covered? And that sometimes it's, it's not that easy to do, actually.
Mia Quagliarello:
So you've just talked about putting together the catalog as a whole. But then, is there any element of personalization for the user?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Thank you for asking. Great question. Yes. So when we then start thinking about how to surface the content that we have selected at the right time to the right person, this is partly done by recommender systems. So my team and I, we had actually, we had a hand in building this, or our recommender systems together with our data science and engineering teams. But another angle that we pursue, and that we do this through as editorial illustration. So we also work super closely together with our CRM team. So they're owning email and push notifications. And we also work with our marketing teams to ensure that we, you know, that we target the right segments with the right content. And that they when that when they come to the app, or our service, they do find what they were looking for, but also find what they didn't know they were looking for, this is always my catchphrase a little bit. That moment of serendipity is something that I think algorithms cannot yet create, as well as humans can. Like that moment of epiphany,
Mia Quagliarello:
Does Blinkist have a machine learning team?Â
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yes, we do.Â
Mia Quagliarello:
And how do humans interface with that team?Â
Robyn Kerkhof:
Also a great question. So we work very closely together with that team, because we, we do believe it's important to have, well, the human in the loop to steal from, well, the previous curation function at Twitter, or what it was formerly called before? Well, the company made a big, big mistake to let go of them. We will see in a couple of years where this is gonna lead them. But it's important to have the human in the loop to inform the recommenders and the algorithms and to make them better and to actually make them serve the customers well. And inside the curation and content team, we're also using AI technology to support us with copy editing with error checking, and like these smaller tasks that are really cumbersome and like a little annoying sometimes. So it's really nice actually to be able to use algorithms to do that, to do that work for us.
Mia Quagliarello:
When it comes to curation. What do you think humans do? Well, that algorithms Can't you mentioned serendipity. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about why you think humans are uniquely positioned to execute on that promise.
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah, I think humans are winning when it comes to contextualization. Serendipity can only be created in specific contexts, right. And I think machines have a hard time to see and point out connections between different books between different content pieces between ideas even, and to explain why this connection is important. So to make it a bit less nebulous, maybe let's use an actual example. From the blinkers world. So one of the most searched for terms and our app is actually sex. Because I mean, it's it's important right and people do it. That's good. And we as human curators, we can make assumptions educated and formed assumptions around why that is? Why are people searching for the term sex? And what is it that they are actually looking for. So for example, when we curate a playlist, or as we call them collections, when we curate a playlist that features content about, you know, tips and tricks to have better, more satisfying sex, that is good. But also, we feature content about communication and romantic relationships about nonviolent needs based communication about I don't know, content about intimacy, and vulnerability, and so on. So through this type of packaging, and bringing these different things together, we create a deeper and richer meaning to the initial search query. And that usually resonates with people. I think AI and machine learning is not quite there yet, at least not the stuff that is accessible to us. However I do, I do believe that machines and algorithms, they are really unbeatable. When it comes to speed and volume, right? The amount of data that machines can take into account for that decision making is really incredible. I do believe we, as humans, we should utilize this much, much, much, much more. I think the future of organizations is or like, let's say, for organizations to win in the future, they will need to combine the power of humans and algorithms.
Mia Quagliarello: Â
I love your example. Because I think you're showing how humans can make an idea. mean, whatever they want it to mean, whereas a machine might be a lot more literal about it.
Robyn Kerkhof:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It reads sex, right. And then it's like, okay, this person wants to have more sex or better sex, like there is a little bit of variation and but not a lot. Whereas we can say there are so many more layers, this is actually a really deep, multifaceted thing that people are looking for. So yeah.
Mia Quagliarello: Â
Now you started the curation, discipline inside Blinkist. Right. And I'm wondering how you justified this role and any expenses associated with it?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah, well, that is a, that's a good, that's a good thing to talk about. Because, yeah, back in the days, like seven years ago, I would say, roughly, curation, as you know, an area and a job outside of museums and art galleries. And it's really, it's seriously wasn't a thing. It took all the Spotify and the Twitter's and the Netflix's of the world to really popularize curation as a valid business need. However, I am actually, I'm a little proud to say that we were amongst the first ones to identify the business need for that discipline. However, it happened on a very small scale, in the beginning. I think my strategy back then, and it really hasn't changed since then, is to try things out, to see what happens, and to use the tools I currently have at my disposal. So my initial thought back then was bookstores are curating how to organize books, what books to place next to one another, in order to make sure that customers find the best possible book for their reading needs. So why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we doing the same? And then I thought, Okay, I want to test this assumption that this might be a good thing to do. And I want to test it as quick and dirty as possible. So, back in the days, we didn't have a lot of tools to do that. We did have a newsletter function. And we were able to hard code things inside the app, you know, to show up next to one another, super simple things like that. So Well, I had a couple of assumptions that I tested through the simple functionalities, like for example, what happens if I curate a newsletter in a way that it looks like a playlist, right? Or what if I curate a newsletter in a way that the different content pieces that I mentioned, refer to one another? And then I looked at the results, and they were pretty straightforward. And it was quite clear that it worked. Right? The engagement was much better. Retention was much better. So then it was a pretty, pretty easy thing to go to leadership and say, Hey, let me let me do more of this. I want to do more of this. I want to see where this can take us. And that is how Yeah, that's how the area grew. Continue. easily over time, step by step, it's really important to bear in mind that this needs to be done consistently and regularly. Right? So it's the most useful thing in a business, I think, especially when it comes to often undervalued areas, like curation is still in the digital realm. It's really important to share your ideas to understand the hypotheses and assumptions that you draw from your ideas, and then to test them and test them as easily as possible. And then once you have the results, and your assumptions have been verified, then go to leadership and say, Now I want the money. Now I want the resources. I want to build this out. I want to do more of that.
Mia Quagliarello:
And what metrics do you use now to continually measure success?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Oh, yeah, my favorite. One of my favorite things to talk about, because I'm actually at heart, a lover of data, really, and also a lover of books and all the other things, but I do love data a lot. And I think when it comes to curation, it's, it's a pretty interesting and difficult thing to identify the right metrics to look at. So for example, there are some straightforward ones, in our case, like start or open rates, right? Like how often do people click on this collection? How many people engage with it? How many people start listening to this particular blank? How often has this been shared? But often these very straightforward simple metrics, they only tell you part of the story, right? I think metrics need to be contextualized. So, for example, when we think about books, there are genres, let's say that are more popular than others, and will forever be more popular than others, because they are by nature, more mainstream, for example. So a psychology book will always have more starts, or more engagement than a book about, let's say, I don't know, Zen Buddhism, because Zen Buddhism is a bit more niche than general psychology. Therefore, the psychology book will always generate more traffic, right. So it will always have more starts more engagement. But the traffic does not tell us anything about whether the customers who have engaged with this content piece will be loyal. So that's about long term engagement, or whether we have actually helped them to understand a subject matter better, or whether we have created an app, like sort of an aha moment in them. That is pretty difficult to measure. It's, I'd say, it's nearly impossible to measure aha moments, even though I would love to be able to do that. And we, we actually really want people to, you know, have these moments of Epiphany, we want to spark understanding and people really annoys me not to be able to directly measure this. But I think that's when secondary metrics come in. So for example, I have a couple of months ago, I've started working very, very closely together with our performance marketing team. And we have taken signals from curation and content, and translated them into the marketing channels that we have at our disposal. And we have created some really, really amazing results. So higher spend higher proceeds, more engagement, better trial, conversion, all of these things. It was much easier for me then to go to leadership, right to our leadership team and say, look, what we have created based on the data points and the signals we have seen and curation. And we have amplified this, because we've started using them in another area inside the company. And all of a sudden, beyond the metrics that we have looked at for so many years already that are helpful to a degree. We have now an additional 20 metrics we can look at to see how effective something is how effective our curation is.
Mia Quagliarello:
I'm wondering in terms of measuring those aha moments, if you could use comments or social chatter to measure that.
Robyn Kerkhof:
That is a great idea. Yes, to a degree, I mean, what happens is that this will always be biased, right? So we give people the opportunity to leave ratings and leave comments also for every content piece they engage with, they listen to or that they read. And these ratings and reviews are insightful, to a degree because it's a always a very specific kind of person who was willing to leave a review, right. So we need to bear that in mind. It is only representative of a particular segment or a particular group of people. And also, I think we need to take into account the circumstance that a customer or a user might be in, when they leave that review, or decide not to leave a review, right. So for example, in our case, because it takes 15 to 20 minutes to consume a content piece. Sometimes people do it on the way to somewhere right there on the bus or in that car, or they walk somewhere, and then they're finished listening. And even if they're happy, maybe they don't have the additional two or three minutes to write a review. But it doesn't mean we didn't spark an aha moment in them. There are other ways to measure that. I think like, for example, sharing is a really good one. I think it's quite intuitive, right? That people when they like something, they want to share it with others. And we have recently built a new functionality in the app. It's called spaces, where we allow people to like invite friends and family members and colleagues, to their space, let's say they click, they can create their own spaces, like it's a really cool functionality, and then share directly with people what the content that they've loved. It's a little bit like creating a shared playlist, basically. And these are usually quite good indicators that something was in that content piece that someone loved, right, or that sparked this aha moment in them. But really measuring where it happens within a content piece? And how how big of an aha moment it is, that's still quite difficult.
Mia Quagliarello:Â
What advice would you have for others working in tech, especially who feel that a human lead perspective is important? Like how can those people sell this idea through?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah. I would say especially in tech, there's much more of an understanding in in the cultural realm, obviously, for curation, I would say, especially in tech, apply a business mindset to your pitch, right? If you believe in an idea that has to do with human let curation. Focus on finding answers to what I think are the two most important questions to business leaders. So question number one would be, how can this serve the needs of the customer? Or the user? Better? How can we make sure we create something that makes the experience for the customer or the user some more smooth ride? Or more enjoyable? And then the second question, I think, is, how is this going to make things more efficient, more easy or cheaper for the company? If your idea or your pitch answers to at least one of these questions, like responds to it in a, in a proper in a, in a sufficient way? I think you're on a you're on a good path. If there are no good or waterproof responses to these questions. It's it's actually I'd say probably not a good sell.
Mia Quagliarello:
What have you learned about curation since doing this job?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Oh, yeah, that's That's a deep question, actually. Because I think many of us curate, even without knowing that we do, right? You throw together a new dinner recipe, you create a playlist for a friend who's going through heartbreak, you I don't know, you choose what to wear to a special occasion. All of this to a degree is, is curation, right? So maybe one thing I've learned is that it's actually like kind of an omnipresent, hyper useful skill that comes quite naturally to all of us. However, when you do curation for a living, you need to go beyond what comes naturally to you. And identify the underlying why of your curation. So if you can get to the underlying reasons for how you curate and what you curate, then I think you can build a scalable and interesting, interesting strategy based on that. And this to me wasn't really clear when I when I started that, you know, when I embarked on that journey, I was really just excited about being a curator. And now a couple of years in I realized, like, wow, there's, there's so much there, that positions the user needs at the forefront of everything that we do. And seriously, I think one of my biggest learnings is that the the job of a curator and the job of a therapist, they have much more And then you would assume the beginning.
Mia Quagliarello:
Tell me more about that.
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah, it's, I really believe that what makes them effective curator is a laser sharp focus on the person or the people you are curating for, it's really crucial to put their needs first, to do the research to understand those needs really well and properly. And then to curate based on their needs, it's a little bit like with the example I mentioned earlier about people searching for sex, right? What they were looking for wasn't necessarily content or information about how to have sex, but how to create an intimate connection with another person. And this is something that we can, we can facilitate through curation and help people understand their own pain points, even better. So I think that is what a what a therapist is also at least supposed to do. I think.
Mia Quagliarello:
It's interesting that I feel like this perspective is for someone who's curating at a company where their own identity isn't really that important to the audience that they're serving. But I've talked to other people on this podcast, who, for whom use having a point of view and sticking to it is the key to why they're successful as curators, and they don't really care what their audience interacts with because their audience comes to them for that unique identity and sort of that special sauce that they put forward. Do you think yes, this is a it's a distinction between like individual curators, and then curators who work at companies.
Robyn Kerkhof:Â
What a wonderful observation. Yes, I think that is a core difference. However, I would also argue that I as a curator, or the curators on my team, we also bring in our personality, when we curate, you know, our curation, I would say is playful. It's exciting. It's sometimes surprising, and it's thoughtful, it can be really kind, I think, even though we're not putting our name and our face on it, it still has a personality. If you ask everyone in my team, including myself, to curate a collection for a specific topic, you will probably get very different results depending on the person who was doing the curation, how they see the world, what they believe in what they think is important to contextualize that topic. But at the same time, I think probably 50% of the content that we would curate is always going to be the same or very similar, right? So there's definitely an overlap. But then there's also variety. And I think that's the beauty of it. Because you think about the customer or the user and their needs, and what you as a curator have to offer. So it's really important as curators, it's important for everyone really, I would say but as curators, it's really important that we grow as people as well. Because if we don't grow as people, our curation and how our curation can help our users and customers, it won't grow either, if that makes any sense.
Mia Quagliarello:
Absolutely. That's a nice segue into my next question, which is, what do you think are the qualities of the most effective characters? Sounds like you've identified growth and curiosity as a key one?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Absolutely. Yeah. Growth and curiosity, I think is, is definitely at the heart of it. And then, yeah, focus on the needs of the person you are doing this curation for. And I, I think, oftentimes people probably wouldn't mention this particular quality, but for me, it's also courage. I think as a curator. You need to believe in your own ideas, until you see them falsified, right, you need to be open also around testing those ideas and having them challenged. But I think courage is a really important part of this job. Maybe. It's not, it's not a pleasant example. It's quite sad, but maybe I can give an example to illustrate what I mean by that. So I think in 2019, I believe Yeah, 2019 one of our founders reached out to me and he said, Well, if I may give you some feedback, I have observed that we are adding Seeing topics to our catalogue that don't perform that well, actually. So he was referring to topics like our books, write books about racism, about sexism, about areas of discrimination. And, unfortunately, we have not seen amazing engagement for them. Because these topics are difficult to digest. And I think, frankly, a lot of people just don't really want to deal with it, at least back in 2019, that was still the case. So one of our founders said, I don't understand why we're adding so much of this content to our catalog. And I said, Well, it's it's not only about performance, but it's also about enriching our platform, with topics that are important. So then fast forward a year, and we find ourselves in summer 2020. And this is where it gets, it gets really sad, because, yeah, on the day of the murder of George Floyd, we made an entire collection available for free. And that collection was filled with more than 20 titles about specifically the the African American experience, including topics of violence, incarceration, etc. And this collection was made available for everybody, free usage for more than three months, only a week after George Floyd's murder. This particular founder that I mentioned earlier, he walked up to me and he said he was happy that we had so much coverage, and that this coverage now helps people to educate themselves in an accessible way. And even though this is a very heartbreaking and tragic example. It shows how courage is part of the job. It's part of our job as curators to provide people with the most useful knowledge and information and to really Yeah, to help them understand the world around them a little bit better.
Mia Quagliarello:
And what inspires you?
Robyn Kerkhof:
What inspires me? Yeah, I would say that I see myself as a naturally curious person. So I find a lot of things interesting. However, for something or someone to inspire me. What comes to mind immediately are three main qualities that I'm looking for. One of them is courage, then I think I find a growth mindset really inspiring. And the third one, I'd say is kindness.
Mia Quagliarello:
I love to that when we talked, you told me that what is creating an aha moment for you is one of your go to questions when talking to other curators. So I'm so curious for you, what are some things that have created that have created aha moments for you? In the last, you know, year, five years? Y
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yes. Yeah, I really love that question. Because you immediately when you ask someone, what's created an aha moment for you, you can you can see on their face, how their brain is thinking, I really love that. Yeah, when it comes to aha moments that I've had, seriously, it might sound a little silly, but I get most of my aha moments through conversations that are a bit tough. So I'm usually the conversationalist who is very persistent, who pushes people maybe more than they want to be pushed. But that's because I love debate. And I myself like to be pushed out of my comfort zone as well. And I firmly believe that only when you're in the discomfort zone, you can actually learn something new.
Mia Quagliarello:
How much of your personal development parallels the blinks that you're consuming? And how is Blinkist and forming your personal development?
Robyn Kerkhof:
I love this question. Because seriously, I don't think I talk about this a lot. I have been with blinkers for seven and a half years now roughly. And I truly don't think I would be the person that I am without it. And I I don't mean to sound like Oh, Blink is you know, my employer. But more like it's the service has been amazing. I have learned so much from having that access, from being able to educate myself on areas that I actually don't want to dive deeply into at first glance. And then when I do I go down the rabbit hole right and like, I truly believe, Oh, I dare say most of the books I've purchased over the last five to seven years have books that I engage with on blinkers first, and then realize like, Oh, damn, this is actually really interesting or like, wow, this really touched me more than I thought it would be So my Blink is listening and reading history is pretty much a reflection of where I am standing in life right now.
Mia Quagliarello:
Before we go on to our speed round, I just wanted to ask you where you think the art of curation is heading? Like there's so much chatter right now about AI sort of like taking over like, Are you afraid for our future as curators?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yeah, I'm, I'm always a little hesitant to make predictions like this. Because I think mostly, because I'm a very hopeful person. And often that leads to predictions that are quite not and yet, I'd say not very accurate. But I will say this, I think curation, on a slightly more abstract level is something that humans have always done and will keep doing, I think what will change is how we curate. So using tools like AI algorithms recommenders, to generate more and better results. And another thing that will change is what we end up curating. Because yeah, humans will continue to invent new things, new technologies, new art. So I'm actually pretty excited about that. And I, I don't think there's anything to be afraid of, as curators and as humans in general, I'd say, we need to stay adaptable, and willing to adjust based on what life throws at us. And we're good at this. We have done this before, and we will keep doing it. So I don't think curation and human curation will ever go away. I just believe that the nature of it will change. And that's pretty exciting, actually.
Mia Quagliarello:
All right. So for our speed round, I asked everyone what their to do a little bit of live curation and telling us, what are you reading, watching listening to that you think everyone should know? Because they're just so good, and they've made your life better and brighter?
Robyn Kerkhof:
Yes. Wow. Well buckle up because I consume. I truly I consume so much content, it's it's really, I don't I actually don't know how how I do that. To be honest, it's, I read a lot. So I would really love to recommend a couple of books that have had quite an impact on me over the last two or three years, I would say. So in the nonfiction realm, I would happily recommend a book called The hidden spring by Mark Psalms. I love neuroscience, it really fascinates me. I've studied neuro linguistics. So I'm always keen to catch up on the latest achievements in that area. And the hidden spring is a book that I don't even know how to put it into words, it has really done an amazing job at making, explaining something very, very complex and difficult, in very accessible and even fun language. So that's a great read. On the fiction side. I mean, I read an awful lot of fiction. So it's really hard to pick a single book but I I think if I had to name one that has really moved me and impressed me with its language. It's probably ocean bongs. On Earth. We're briefly gorgeous. I mean, what what an author? How can someone write like this? I really don't understand. It's beyond anything I can comprehend. Ocean Vaughn is amazing. And then maybe a work of poetry because I really love poetry, and I always will forever and always will recommend David White's the house of belonging. I think his poems are really stunning. And they've touched me so much that oftentimes I have to take a break to process after every sentence. So it takes a while to read them for me. But yeah, his works are really, really good. I mostly watch films, I love going to the cinema. I have an easier time naming some of my all time favorites that came out over the last couple of years. So what comes to mind immediately is Judas and the black Messiah, or drive my car, parasite, of course, all of Jordan peels, films, but I do watch YouTube videos every now and then. And I follow mostly channels that have to do with food. YouTube channels that come to mind that I really like and watch regularly are Epicurious. And inside a business. They have a series called so expensive, where they explain why certain foods are so expensive, and it's really informative. I really love it. When I think about what I listened to. I mentioned the waking up app. It's by far the best meditation Shouldn't and mindfulness app out there? There are also so many great podcasts out there, including yours. Thank you. Yes, I really I have benched. I have binge listened. Basically. Another one I really another podcast I really like is a philosophy podcast called philosophize this. I'm, I'm obsessed with it. That's really good. And then music. Well, I think my tastes in music is quite eclectic. But if I had to pick one genre, that I would listen to easily, like, no issue and listening to it for the rest of my life, I'd probably pick jazz. And when I think of my records at home, I would say, Matthew Hall Saul's record called color. Yes. is one that I frequently listen to you. It's a really good album, I think. I think that's it. Yes. It's a lot of stuff.
Mia Quagliarello:
If you want to connect with Robin, you can find her on LinkedIn or on Instagram at the curious curator. We've put links to everything she's recommended in the Flipboard storyboards that you'll find in the shows notes. They thank you to our audio editor and like, if you want to find out more about Flipboard for enthusiast or curating stories, they recommend across 1000s of interests, download the app or head over to our website@flipboard.com Anyone can be a curator on Flipboard. Simply create an account and start flipping to share your ideas with the world