The New Yorker’s Kyle Chayka posits that the “algorithmification” of our social media feeds is having profound effects on our culture — and not in a good way.
“The internet demands that everyone be a kind of curator: you're a curator of your own Instagram, of your opinions on Twitter, of what playlists you listen to on Spotify. There's a lot of curation going on but it's more in the sense of selecting between stuff. Curation, to me, is a much more deep-seated act that has more to do with the caretaking of culture, building context, and creating histories that might be overlooked.” — Kyle Chayka, Author, “Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture”
If you’ve heard of things like Instagram face or the Brooklyn coffee shop effect, you know the tremendous power algorithms have in shaping our lives. Journalist Kyle Chayka has been tracking this phenomenon for years and has concluded that algorithmically mediated digital platforms are not making our experiences better. In fact, he says, they are flattening our culture.
You don’t have to wait for his book, “Filterworld,” to come out in January 2024 to explore how this “algorithmification” of our social feeds is having profound effects on our media, communication, physical spaces, aesthetic preferences, consumer habits, and more.
Highlights, inspiration and key learnings from the conversation:
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🔎 Browse the companion Storyboard to get the episode, plus Kyle’s own favorite culture picks.
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This transcript was generated by AI, which may affect its accuracy. As such, we apologize for any errors in the transcript or confusion in the dialogue.
Mia Quagliarello:
Have you ever noticed a pervasive aesthetic that just seems so similar? It happened to me, I looked up at a music festival and was surrounded by at least three people wearing the same jacket, it would have taken me aback. Except I'd seen this jacket before. I'd seen it in my Instagram feed, and have considered buying it too. It was creepy to think how much the algorithm knew me, knew all of us. And I was seeing its influence right there in front of me in the physical world.
My guest today is literally writing the book on this phenomenon. algorithms have been around for a while. But at some point seven or eight years ago, algorithm vacation took over our feets. Today, it's more normal to see something from an algorithm optimized for engagement, than to see posts from the people we explicitly follow. This kind of spoon fed experience has had profound effects on our culture, our communication, our media, and more.
What does this look like in virtual and physical places? What do we lose out on by living this way? How can we break free from this bubble? How is generative AI going to affect things? And what role does curation play in all of this? That's today's episode.
Welcome to the Art of curation, the show from Flipboard that explores the role of human tastes in a tech driven world. Each episode, we talk to someone who's an expert in finding Signal and the Noise. People who do this for a living in media, tech, fashion, music, photography, and more. I'm your host, Mia Quagliarello. Like you, I get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content out there. I crave authentic people to guide me making smart choices that make my life better people with taste, the real kind.
My guest today is Kyle Chayka. Kyle is a staff writer at The New Yorker, where he writes a column on technology and culture. He is also the author of the longing for less a book about minimalism, and a forthcoming book called "Filterworld", but how algorithms flattened culture. In this interview, we get an excellent preview of his book, and a real grounding on the essential aspects of taste and culture. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Mia Quagliarello:
I want to dig right into their premise of "Filterworld," which is going to explore all the ways in which experiences are shaped by algorithms. What made you want to write about this?
Kyle Chayka:
I think I realized just how pervasive algorithms and algorithmic feeds were in our lives. And I, I wanted to write a book that took that on as a whole, I kind of had this feeling over kind of the mid to late 2010s. And just getting worse and worse up until now in 2023, that algorithmic feeds and digital platforms were just kind of having a chokehold on culture and communication, and media and entertainment. And kind of everything that we experienced is mediated by them and spoon fed to us. So I think I was observing the effects of that happening just in my own life as an Internet user. And I really wanted to read something critical about it and just kind of explore what's happening and at least the data for people.
Mia Quagliarello:
And what does that look like in practical terms in both digital and physical spaces?
Kyle Chayka:
I think in digital spaces, it's pretty familiar, like, your Facebook feed, works via a recommendation algorithm, your Netflix homepage, is also constantly recommending your content. Spotify is building playlists for you, or automatically playing a song that that recommendation algorithm thinks you might like. So we see how all of our feeds, and all of our digital consumption is mediated by algorithms. But I think what we're understanding more now is how those recommendations and those digital platforms are also influencing the places we go in the physical world, some of our actions in the physical world, like taking photos of things for Instagram, and also just how we make money. Particularly for anyone who is working in a cultural field or trying to be a creator or an artist. You have to contend with algorithmic feeds all the time. We constantly butt up against these algorithmically mediated digital platforms in any aspect of our lives. And I think we're starting to see how that's a negative thing. It doesn't make our experiences necessarily that much better or, or make our culture that much better.
Mia Quagliarello:
I felt that early last year I was at a music festival and I looked up and I saw everyone had the same jacket around me, which was a jacket I myself had been targeted at, you know on Instagram, so I didn't know what I was experiencing. But I, after reading some of your work, I was like put two and two together like, oh, yeah, this is the influence of my Instagram feed like physically around me.
Kyle Chayka:
Yeah, I mean, since the algorithmic recommendations influence what you buy, and what ads you look at, and essentially what you desire in various cultural fields, it's really easy to notice when someone is being guided through the same algorithmic pathways that you are. So I feel like, over the past eight or so years, we've had this series of objects or aesthetics or, you know, styles that we recognize as these algorithmically homogenous things that everyone suddenly has. So it might be that jacket. Or it might be like the, the Amazon coat that was super popular in 2020, or a particular rug design are a certain kind of ceramic objects that's really popular and instagram with kind of pastel colors and blobby, curvilinear shapes. So in my, in my book, and kind of in my thinking over the past bunch of years, I think that homogeneity is because we're all traveling through the same algorithmic pathways. And they're kind of guiding us toward the same end result. And there might be a lot of end results like various buckets, but within your bucket, you're kind of always guided toward the same object or aesthetic or experience.
Mia Quagliarello:
Now, what about the flip side of that, because platforms like Spotify, and, and Flipboard are, you know, feeding me things that are actually also expanding my horizons. So how do you reconcile these two things that algorithms seem to be simultaneously flattening and expanding culture?
Kyle Chayka:
Yeah, it's a really, it's a really clear tension. I think. On one level, I think our internet can't function without recommendation algorithms, like, the information that we see just has to be filtered and curated for us in some way. Because a human being can't face that bombardment of information, we need help, we need like a robotic or human guide to what we're supposed to pay attention to. So in that way, I think recommendation algorithms can bring us new things and can help us make sense of the vast breadth of user generated content on the internet. But I think my problem is not so much the existence of algorithmic recommendations, but just how they've been applied, particularly on the largest digital platforms. So like, tick tock or Instagram, or Twitter, even. The recommendations just seem to have taken over and they get, they occupy more and more space over more time, and the user has less control over what they're seeing. So I think my issue is just how broadly the recommendations are taking place, and how much they control what we see, rather than the choices that the user might make on their own.
Mia Quagliarello:
As part of your research. I think in September of last year, you tried to shield yourself from algorithms altogether. What did you learn from that experiment? And are you still living in that state?
Kyle Chayka:
I'm not. I think it was, it was really hard thing to do. And I, I read a column about internet culture and, and news for the New Yorker. And so I don't think I can really do my job if I can't be on the internet, essentially. But I decided to do it in part as an experiment for the book. And in part just because I have become so sick of all of my consumption habits, and, you know, reading and listening and looking at images to be mediated by algorithmic feeds. So I figured that the best way to figure out how to escape that or to see what happens when you when you get outside of that was just to kind of log out of all of those digital platforms. So I got off Instagram, I deleted Tik Tok, I stopped looking at Twitter. And it took a while actually to reconstruct my experience of the internet, just because the internet has been so shaped around these feeds that we're supposed to use them, like people don't go to website home pages. They don't often buy music directly from musicians. They don't, you know, find an art book rather than look at an Instagram feed for images. So I kind of had to figure out ways around around using all those feeds. But I did end up feeling a lot better. I think. I think it was very clarifying mentally. I felt like I had less noise in my head. I was more intentional about what I was consuming. And I could kind of follow my own winds and taste more so than than when I was just looking at feeds all day. So I think it was a healthy exercise. And I think taking that three month break, I think it was September, October, November and December. It made me totally rethink and renegotiate my relationships, all these platforms. Like I think before, I thought they were totally unnecessary. Like I couldn't live without them. I couldn't not be on Twitter, I couldn't not look at Instagram. But it turns out, you totally can, you know, it's a silly, a silly thing to observe, but life goes on without them. And you will not die if you don't post your coffee on Instagram or tweet your random thoughts.
Mia Quagliarello:
Is any of that part of the solution that you will suggest in your book?
Kyle Chayka:
Yes, there is a chapter that kind of kicks off with this algorithm cleanse. And I think in part, it's a good experiment to just kind of get off them and see what exists without them. And that forces you to rely on your own taste and go direct to the source of things that you like, which I think is very healthy. But I also you know, I'm, I'm not allowed to, like I love the internet all day long. It is totally enables my career and my life and, and some of the experiences that I've had. But I think there's just better ways to use these tools and better ways to relate to algorithmic feeds. So I also ended up encouraging people to look for more human curators, and tastemakers like connect to people more directly. And also just look for smaller scale platforms that are, like address specific bodies of culture and have a better relationship between creators and consumers. So not so much Instagram or Twitter, but something more like Flipboard, or more like Patreon, or these smaller scale streaming services like is audio, which is as if Spotify was only for classical music and had much better information. So I'm kind of trying to guide people toward better digital experiences and things that are more sustainable for culture overall.
Mia Quagliarello:
I'm glad you mentioned other curators, you've also written about curation as losing its meaning because so many people are doing it and it becomes an act of narcissism more than an act of service. So what do you look for in a curator that's worth following.
Kyle Chayka:
And they're hard to find, I think, I think there's the internet demands, everyone be a kind of curator. Like you're a curator of your own Instagram, you're a curator of your opinions on Twitter, you're a curator of what playlists you listen to on Spotify. So I think there's a lot of curation going on. But not, it's more in the sense of just selecting between stuff. I think curation, to me, is much a much more deep-seated act that has more to do with the caretaking of culture and building more context for things and creating histories that might be overlooked. So when I'm looking for people to listen to or follow, you know, the first and easiest thing is just to see if their tastes resonate with yours, like do you like the kind of vibe that they're creating with what they're putting together. But then I also really look for people who are building connections between things, and constructing more context, like giving you the information of where something came from, how they found it, how it came to be connecting it to related things, if an artist was influenced by another artist, connecting it to a period of history in which there were other forces at play, like politics or economics. So I think in some ways that has to do with, you know, being a good writer, and a good researcher, and bringing your audience something that they didn't know. But I think that curation can take many forms, like, you don't have to start a sub stack, like it might be a Tiktok creator, who you really like listening to who talks about vintage photography, or something like I, I follow one account. I have no idea who the guy is. He only has like 1000 followers. This account records short video essays about vintage photography from like the 19th century in China and other parts of Asia. And you know, it gets like 100 likes every time, which is not very much but I really like listening to it because it's so smart and deep and specific. And I feel like it kind of exists just for me in that moment.
Mia Quagliarello:
I feel like some of the qualities that you just mentioned for good curators are also qualities of journalists. Do you think that journalists have a leg up?
Kyle Chayka:
I do. I mean, sometimes I think the book is a little bit of an argument for my own fields. Just because, you know, we want, I think we all want better forms of media, and more good content, not less good content. We want to feel close to the creators who we like. So I think there is an argument for journalism, certainly, I would, I would argue that my job should exist. But I think, I mean, journalism is changing, and cultural commentary has changed so much in the past 1015 years. And I don't think those are bad changes, like I love that I can follow someone who makes great playlists on Spotify, or to find an interesting YouTube channel, or subscribe to a writer Substack and know that I'm supporting them directly. So I feel like when you hear journalism, you think of a New York Times columnist, or something that's kind of ivory tower position. But I think there's a lot more interesting things happening. And the whole ecosystem has developed a lot. I feel like we there's this point of algorithmic suffocation, or at this moment in 2015 2016, when all of our feeds became much more algorithmic, there were more recommendations. And we've kind of struggled with that for a bunch of years, and only now are we figuring out ways around it and ways to reconnect with people we like directly. So I'm very optimistic in that regard.
Mia Quagliarello:
What do you make of the de-influencing trend? Now, in places like Tiktok, and Instagram, people are telling their fans not to buy something. Is this something you're studying as well?
Kyle Chayka:
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a backlash to influencers, in general, just because it's become so saturated. Like, is influencer means so many different things, like some influencers, the point is to kind of guide you toward things you can buy or consume, like, where did you get that dress? Or where did you go on vacation? So I think there was there has been a total exhaustion with that kind of model. And the D influencing part is a reaction to that and a way to be like, No, I'm not just recommending things that you buy, or ways to copy me, but I'm telling you, like, what not to do and, you know, pointing out things that you might be disappointed in essentially. Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of a natural reaction. And then it's, it's a thing that certainly happened before, like, we're kind of just remaking Consumer Reports and saying when a thing is bad, but I still think the core function of of influencing or being an influencer is still building this aspirational lifestyle image. And that persists, whether you're telling someone to buy something or not to buy something.
Mia Quagliarello:
I'm sure you're also tracking how generative AI is impacting culture where you can't ignore it. What are some of your thoughts on that? And did you get that into the book?
Kyle Chayka:
It's not quite in the book, I think, you know, the AI boom, as far as the normal public has only happened like the past six, eight months or so, or maybe a year at most. So I feel like we're really still coming to grips with what that means. I think no one really has any idea. But I think I kind of get to it toward the end of the book. My theory, which you know, I have not written yet, I haven't, like done my full reporting and research. But I think algorithmic feeds have this way of encouraging people to act in the same way, like the buying the same jacket, or writing or tweets in the same way or taking the same kinds of Instagrams. And that was because the feed promoted certain kinds of content, and certain kinds of content worked really well. And we kind of had to figure out what that content was like by trial and error. But I think with AI generating tools, you can kind of instantly generate something that you know works or that complies with the aesthetic average, or the stylistic average. So the AI tools make it easier to create more content than ever, faster than ever, but I don't think it makes it any more meaningful, necessarily. I think it kind of becomes more cliche, more, more stereotypical faster. And I, you know, I've seen a lot of interesting app projects and I enjoy it, but I haven't seen that much meaningful culture come from it. I think right now it's more like entertainment. function.
Mia Quagliarello:
So when we think of human tastes in a tech driven world, and I want you to make me feel better here, you know, what are the uniquely human things that only we can do to enhance and elaborate and celebrate on culture?
Kyle Chayka:
Yeah, it's the, I mean, culture is an innately human thing. I think culture has been impacted by all sorts of technology over many centuries, whether it's trains, or photography, or the answering that. So I think culture survives, and human tastes survives, like you never like everything, you're always deciding what you know, what you like more and what you like less. But I think what machines can't approximate, whether it's algorithmic feeds, or AI is how humans desires surprise, they desire, things that are out of our current frame of reference, and things that might challenge us or upset us, or things that we don't like right away, but might come to like six months, or a year down the road. And those are all qualities of great art, like great art is challenging and provocative and ambiguous, and it sometimes takes time to understand. But I think algorithmic feeds, and certainly AI tools are like, against all those qualities, the technology we have right now is all about instant engagement. And the thing that gets as much as many likes or views as possible. And that's certainly not the thing that's challenging or upsetting. Like, the thing that takes a long time to understand is not going to compel you to hit the thumbs up button immediately. And let's share it to other people and signal to the algorithm that it's good. So I hope that we can use our tastes to seek out more of those kinds of things and change our attitudes so that we have more patience, or more desire for those challenging and surprising things. So we kind of have to understand that the algorithmic feeds are not giving that to us, and we might be missing out on it.
Mia Quagliarello:
And how do you get it when you want new ideas and inspiration? Where do you go? What do you look for?
Kyle Chayka:
I think it's hard right now. I mean, like, honestly, I think we are in a bad moment for interesting ideas and culture. Not that nothing is interesting, but it's hard to find, and seek out and sustain things that aren't immediately popular. Whether that's by a tick tock or by Patreon, or whatever. So I think I mean, there are a few different things I do, I suppose I try to find voices I like to follow, like a writer or a musician, or, you know, a tick tock video maker and I pay attention to them intentionally. Like I make sure to go visit their website or catch up on their newsletter, or like check their tick tock feed because the for you feed is not always gonna give it to you. So I tried to, you know, actually follow these people in depth and see what they're thinking on a daily and weekly basis. And I find that gives you a deeper connection with them. And it makes you have more interesting thoughts yourself, because you're kind of following their thought process rather than just getting a single snapshot once every two weeks. And I also think there's this intolerance right now for history and kind of obscurity, where an algorithmic feed encourages you to engage with something in a fast and shallow way. You know, you hit the like button, you move on to the next thing. But I think if you can take some time to like, look up the history of the things you like, and kind of dig up some interesting facts on your own and like, find out more, that's going to give you better relationships and culture. And that's gonna make you more interested in things that might be outside of your comfort zone at a given moment.
Mia Quagliarello:
What about inspiration from the physical world? Like, were you ever the type of person to browse a record shop or go into a bookstore and pick up a book because of a staffers recommendation?
Kyle Chayka:
For sure. I mean, I think physical stores are often the best example of curation, whether that's a indie bookstore or a fashion boutique or design store, when I just went to a design store in in Red Hook, Brooklyn, that showcased all of the stuff made by the artists in one particular warehouse nearby, and it was just the most beautifully like curated selection of vases. As I'm for an insurance, sculptures and art, and it was made by this group of people who all knew each other and supported each other, and that was such a beautiful example of like, how curation works and how it follows human relationships and how it can, one objects can illuminate another one, like they all seem to relate to each other and create the semester movement together. So I love going to stores like that. And bookstores, I mean, I write in my book about the McNally Jackson bookstore, which is still in Soho, but it moved from its original location. And it just had the most striking two front tables of fiction and nonfiction books. And it was not just what had come out recently, but what the staff was looking at different genres, surprising contrasts, like maybe there's poetry or memoir, and with the fiction, maybe there's academic books in with the popular history and the nonfiction. And it was, I just loved getting a sense of how the bookstore staff, curated these and created contrasts and created this like network of ideas within the store. So I find all of that really, really inspiring, but you have to seek it out still, you know, it's, it's not every store that functions that way. And you need to go find the ones that engage with your own kinds of tastes and your own methods of discovery. Like, I'm not a great fashion shopper. But I know vintage stores are amazing. And there's such a deep sense of taste displayed through, you know, a selection of clothing brands. So I think it can totally exist. And it's often that the physical spaces are often more offline, because you have to sit there and look at how things relate to each other and then move through a selection of stuff.
Mia Quagliarello:
Do you have like a Notion doc where you keep everything? Or do you have a Trello board with ideas? Like how do you organize your inspiration so that it's useful to you later?
Kyle Chayka:
Yeah, I mean, I think that's, it's like a habit that you have to cultivate, to like, keep a record and to create an archive for yourself. And I think in some ways, something like Instagram can do that like a mood board, or a collection of material from your own life that you relate to. For me, personally, I think, most often, I use this app, that's now called Microsoft to do. But it used to be called Wunderlist. It was a kind of like, indeed, note taking software. But it's a great, it's a great tool for lists and notes, and also longer text documents. And I find that super, super useful just in terms of keeping track of my random thoughts. Because I do I mean, my writing process or thinking process tends to happen when I'm just walking around, and maybe some idea will hit me or something will inspire me. And I'll, I'll make sure to write it down. But I also find it really interesting. The kind of infinite camera roll that exists for everyone now, like you have your phone in your pocket, we take more photos every day than people took in their entire lives 100 years ago, or six years ago, whatever. And so this, my photos are like a visual record of everything. I've seen everything that struck me tons of screenshots of stuff that I see on the internet that I want to go back to. So I also think that's like a way of capturing your experience and keeping a record of it. But then going back through those records is another matter like, right, I might keep tons of notes, but I don't always read back through them. I take a million screenshots and photos, but I only seek them. I only dig them up if I need to go back to that moment. But that is often incredibly useful. Like in the book, I was reading about a reporting trip I did to Iceland in 2019, I think. And so I could go back to my camera roll and look at every photo I took on that trip, and kind of relive it and see new things and and see things that I could describe in a new way or that related to my to my new work. So I find that incredibly powerful and new.
Mia Quagliarello:
I started to use this service called Chatbooks and forcing myself that you can make a monthly photo book from your phone images, a physical book. So it forces me every month to pick 30 items. And some of them are screenshots too. I'm just trying not to be too precious about it. But I feel like if I have a physical book that For now, stick with me more.
Kyle Chayka:
Totally. I mean, it's, I think what we miss is that all of these things used to happen all the time, just in much more analog ways. Like I remember my family bookshelves of photo albums that there's, you know, one per year they were labeled with the year is when you could go back through them. So if you like people have always curated their lives and kept track of moments and ideas and stuff. Or you can think back to like, the idea of a day book in which you kept wrote down little lines of things that you liked, as well as your diary. So I think there's always been ways to do these things. But we've given over so much of that responsibility to digital technology and to recommendation algorithms. Like even our photos, like your iPhone automatically assembles your photos into an evocative slideshow of your vacation. Word that really should be a thing that you do for yourself so that you can think about what you experienced, like the automation of our experiences and memories and tastes is something that's totally creepy to me.
Mia Quagliarello:
Well, Kyle, as you're fielding all this interest around "Filterworld,” is there anything you wish more people would ask you about the book and your research?
Kyle Chayka:
I mean, when you write a long book, it's like you yourself, almost lose track of what's in it, and what's not in it, because you've just thought through everything so many times. But I think I mean, what I'm excited to talk about more as the book comes out, is kind of the history of algorithmic feeds, or even the history of ideas of automation. So there's really interesting examples of MIT researchers making early music recommendation systems that just worked over email. And that, you know, Spotify was not the first thing to do that. And I also like discussing historical precedents, like I described the Mechanical Turk, in the book, which was this theoretically chess playing robot that existed in the 18th century, I think. And it was this, this mechanical turk Man figure wearing a turban on top of a cabinet. And theoretically, it played chess by the system of gears and clockwork, and knew exactly what to do. But in reality, this technology was like, actually driven by a small man hiding inside the cabinet and playing the chess game for the robot. So I love things like that as a metaphor for how we relate to algorithmic feeds. And the fact that we don't always know when technology is working, or when it's a human's Choice versus an automated technological choice. So I think those, like that historical aspect of the book, is also important. And I think it's important to connect to the history and remember that these problems are like not completely unprecedented. There's always been critiques that culture is too shallow or to the same or technology is ruining it. So I don't want to I don't want people to think that I'm, you know, making this argument outside of that context.
Mia Quagliarello:
Kyle, I love to end these interviews with a little bit of live curation, if you will, where my guests will pick, let's say three to five, like books, movies, podcasts, albums that they think everyone should experience, because they're just so good.
Kyle Chayka:
Well, things that have been sticking in my mind lately, a lot. I always, always go back to this essay called in praise of Shadows by the Japanese novelist Junichiro Tanizaki. And it's this kind of short, 40 page essay written in 1933. In which Tanizaki kind of reflects on how the rise of electric lights has changed Tokyo, and like changed culture and society for him as he was living through this like period of industrialization in Japan. And I just think that essay captures so much and so elegant and cool that I think everyone should read it. So it's been published in the US by the same and depressed since 1977. It was just a fantastic book. So you gotta get that.
I've also been obsessed with the Swedish or Swiss or Swedish. I don't know. But anyway, it's a furniture designer called the USM Modular, which are these kind of modular shelving systems and credenza chairs and desks and tables that kind of look like giant connects or something. And they're grids of metal tubes connected by little ball sockets, and then you fill in the shelves with the powder coated steel and bright colors. And I just think they're so cool. And you don't see them in the United States as much. So I feel like everyone should go check that out.
And in my own life, like I did my Spotify wraps this year and last year, and I think I was in the point zero 1%, top listeners of the Bill Evans Trio, which is a jazz trio from the 1960s. You know what level it's like, wow, that's almost an insult. You've listened to this more than anyone on Earth. That just finds those the trio records from the 60s, particularly the live ones, to just be like, amazing, amazing jazz and like the best writing or working or thinking music that you could possibly ask for. Plus, it's good for a dinner party background. So that's always helpful.
What else I think, in cooking, like my apartment has a bad electric coil stove. And I've always been really frustrated because you can't cook with a walk on it very easily. Like you can't do good stirfry. Like cooking curation would be an induction burner that you just put on top of your stove. And it gets way hotter, way faster, and is way more controllable than your bad rental stuff. So I highly recommend Americans particularly look into induction burners and try those out as like a cooking implement.
In terms of books, it can be hard to find inspiring books and you never really know what you're going to get into. But I've been reading the work of this British story. I'm Orlando Figes for like the past year or more. And I kind of stumbled into his work because I read this book of his called “The Europeans,” which is a kind of triple biography of Ivan Turgenev the novelist and then a singer and a composer in 19th century Europe. But anyway, that book was great. And then I just went through Orlando Figes’ entire body of work, which is a lot of Russian history, because that's what he writes about. And I just love his writing so much that I love reading about Russia in a way that I never thought it would, because I have no interest in Russia, I have no background in that. I have no exposure to it. But his writing in his history is so eloquent and interesting and like wide scope that I have just read every book he's written, the best theory to and I think that's a rare experience when you find an artist or writer who's compels you so much that you're just like driven to go through all their work. But I think that's a process that's worth doing too, is like when you find someone you like, or you find something that's compelling, like go finds everything else they did, because you'll probably like that to
Mia Quagliarello:
Kyle, those are fantastic recommendations. I know what I'm gonna listen to today.
Kyle Chayka:
It's great. It's great. The live live at the Village Vanguard for three discs that it's fantastic.
Mia Quagliarello:
You can follow Kyle on Twitter at @chaykak. That’s C-H-A-Y-K-A-K. You can also subscribe to his newsletter at https://kylechayka.substack.com/. We've put links to everything Kyle's recommended in the Flipboard storyboard that you'll find in the show’s notes.
Big thank you to our audio editor, Ahn Lay.
If you want to find out more about Flipboard, where enthusiasts are curating stories they recommend across 1000s of interests, download the app or head over to our website at flipboard.com. Anyone can be a curator on Flipboard. Simply create an account and start flipping to share your ideas with the world.